Difference between revisions of "Talk:JaWiki"

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Revision as of 05:18, 2 September 2015

Устаревание информации. Устаревание скриншотов

Во многих местах написано "по состоянию на такой-то период такие то дела". Но проходит время и это смотрится странно. Может быть, помечать такие места каким-то шаблоном, с тем чтобы актуализировать их периодически. Дополняя или убирая вовсе те упоминания о времени. Leksey 19:21, 26 August 2008 (CEST)

Тут сложно что-то придумать, но факт есть фактом - они становятся неактуальными. Как поступать - убирать их совсем, либо оставлять, но с каким-то баяном-текста (либо большим значком), который бы кричал "сейчас уже все иначе!!!". Leksey 19:21, 26 August 2008 (CEST)

Ответ по двум пунктам.
Вообще, в вики-системах by design всегда находится относительно актуальная информация. Если она неактуальна — уточни! Можно на глагне сделать дисклэймер об актуальности приводимой информации в частности и о доверии к вики-системам вообще. Мой подход — писать о том, что сейчас происходит. О том, что потом, напишем потом.
Относительно скриншотов — то же самое. Кому надо поддерживать актуальность информации о тех же клиентах? Тебе надо? Мне нет. Пусть разработчик клиента сам поддерживает имидж своей разработки. Нет, конечно, если Наш Треугольный Друг попросит, то я с удовольствием поделаю скринов, но самому следить за этим не хочется. Dixi. // Сыр Российский 08:04, 27 August 2008 (CEST)
А старые скришоты куда предлагаешь девать? Помнишь, я говорил про раскрывающиеся блоки. Я вот бы их туда убирал. Leksey 16:30, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Неактуальные скриншоты заменять на новые или удалять совсем. // Сыр Российский 20:12, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Меня жаба душит. И вовсе не так, о которой мы тут пишем. Мне какой-то частью мозга кажется, что старые шоты тоже нужны. Пусть на чердачке, но нужны. А если инсершен убить из статьи, то так они и пропадут где-то среди филесов. Думай, боярин. Предлагай. Leksey 20:36, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Пожалуй, можно и свернуть с пометкой "старые скриншоты". // Сыр Российский 20:51, 1 June 2009 (GMT)

Красивые интервики-ссылки

Сразу скажу, это не замена интервики обычному в тексте. Мысль об этом у меня давно возникла, но не очень понятно, как это сделать. Я говорю о том чтоюы склепать красивый шаблон, похожий на {{realtitle}} по внешнему виду и расположению. Только можно еще туда иконочку вставить. И там уже ссылка на ткаббер-вики, википедию, а вот сейчас еще jabberworld.info появился. Блок "Смотри также" какой-то неюзабельный, ИМХО.Leksey 16:30, 1 June 2009 (GMT)

Вещь хороший. Но кто клепать будет? Я не осилю, пожалуй. --Vindicar 18:07, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Это несложно. Я попробую. // Сыр Российский 19:58, 1 June 2009 (GMT)

JaWiki vs. JabberWorld

Только смысла в этом вижу мало. Разве что в Википедии. У каждого должна быть своя ниша. Ткаберова вики сильно ограничена одним клиентом и понадобится на полутора страницах. Суть jabberworld вообще не могу осилить. Почему Willrain пытается с нами конкурировать вместо того, чтобы сотрудничать? Хотя догадываюсь... Потому что Binary не захочет установить те вкусненькие примочки, который использует Willrain на своём сайте. У этой задачи есть несколько решений, но если Binary будет продолжать страдать консерватизмом, их множество сократится до не самых хороших. // Сыр Российский 20:11, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Ну давай начнем с Википедии. Что касаемо JW, то тут я причину вижу в ином. Мне кажется, а) это желание реализовать своё видение (что автору, как и многим из нас, какжется невозможным при участии в чужом проекте), плюс восприятие вики-систем не как collaboration tool, а как просто удобную правилку текста на вебе, но для одного человека. б) предположение, что Явики это что-то для девелоперов и вобще для людей, кто знает как читается слово XEP. Да. А про какие такие вкусные примочки ты говоришь и в чем ты обвиняешь Сырожу? Leksey 20:36, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Я тот сайт видел мало, из примочек заметил только ботов, генерящих страницы [1]. Это переносимо, знаю. А Серёже я давно намекаю, что сервер глючит и тормозит, даже предлагаю своим железом поделиться (правда, тоже второй свежести, но чуть получше) или обратиться к хорькам. К хорькам у него личная неприязнь, да и вообще, боится, что при переезде будет тяжело восстановить стройную систему костылей и подпорок, на которых работает jrudevels.org. // Сыр Российский 20:51, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Вот тут на одного Сережу не надо балон катить. Я тут тоже виноватая. А перетащить можно и Явику одну. Сейчас апгрейд сделаю на одной машине и вернемся к этому вопросу. Leksey 21:53, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Пока писал, новый ответ появился). Бот называется "Линуксоид Rain, Linux-шелл и компания" :). Ту таблицу, а также таблицы транспортов я руками делаю, автоматизировать пока проблематично, особенно с учетом околоGPRS'ного канала в интернет. --Rain 20:59, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
"Руками" - в смысле, она не автоматом туда заливается. --Rain 20:59, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
По поводу "а" - с таким же успехом можно стараться прилепить JaWiki как ветвление статьи про Jabber на Wikipedia. Странно бы смотрелось? Ну вот. Про совместную работу - да collaboration, хотя больше всего я ей занимаюсь. По "б" - это было раньше, сейчас - как уже сказал, скорее "все обо всем", ибо затрагиваются самые разные IM-системы :). --Rain 10:07, 2 June 2009 (GMT)
Хм... Вообще JabberWorld ориентирован прежде всего на миграцию пользователей с ICQ/(при необходимости - с другой закрытой сети) на jabber. Т.е., во-первых, показ "что такое хорошо и что такое плохо", сравнение сетей, во-вторых руководства по Jabber-клиентам под различные платформы, в-третьих - разъяснение Jabber-терминов не залезая в подробности протоколов и прочего, ну и немного начал пилить мануалы на тему быстрого подъема собственного сервера юзерами в своих локалках. Попутно даются разные материалы типа таблиц транспортов, серверов, ботов, портов и т.п. Первое тут практически не освещено, второе не затронуто вообще (кроме, собственно, описания клиентов), в третьем начинающий пользователь утонет :). По-моему, вполне себе взаимодополняющие вики - я не стремлюсь сделать проект "все обо всем в мире IM" как получается тут, а тут не особо расписывают миграцию на Jabber и выполнение простых пользовательских действий по освоению и использованию этой сети.
Не нашел, куда прилепить в треде, пусть тут будет, как раз по теме. --Rain 17:09, 6 June 2009 (GMT)
Так, может быть, копать одну яму вместе? Типа, объединить усилия на базе Явики? Я пока не вижу проблем срастить направления даже без особых гимороев. Подумай, напиши, что больше всего тебя смущает в этом предложении. А если еще вернуться к идее бомбусную вики подтянуть, то всем вместе сильно веселее будет и продуктивнее. Leksey 21:53, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Смотря что хочется получить в результате. Если просто слепить на одном движке этакого монстрика из всех статей из нескольких Wiki - а толку? Сейчас в том, что есть на JaWiki трудно ориентироваться - что ж будет, если добавить еще столько же статей (over 300 на данный момент у меня и хз сколько с Bombus Wiki, не смог оценить размер проекта)? Кроме того, тогда JabberWorld перестанет выполнять свою задачу, ибо сейчас это (условно) законченный блок, посвященный миграции на Jabber с неограниченным ветвлением на тему мануалов по настройке клиентов/серверов. По системной части - тут древний движок и загибающийся сам по себе сервер, что ж получится, если свалить все в кучу и снова повторятся январские-февральские события? По части интернета - сейчас юзер, набрав в поисковике "переход на Jabber" попадает на ресурс, посвященный исключительно переходу на Jabber. Ну и так далее... Если по принципу недублирования информации и совместного развития в рамках тех проектов, что есть - собственно, про это говорилось уже достаточно давно, еще со времени разговора про интервики. Со своей стороны я старался не сильно дублировать информацию (да, кое-что должно быть в любом случае на том же проекте, например, описание ресурсов/приоритетов либо каких-то базовых понятий на другом ресурсе (который, к тому же, иногда лежит) выглядело бы странно, то же самое с описанием клиентов - описания вида "Ну... вот. Еще один клиент, только на Tk" или редиректы на другой ресурс были бы не в тему, поэтому были поделаны свои описания и небольшой фич-лист), делаю интерлинки на JaWiki на соответствующие материалы (а-ля "Подробнее про $SUBJ читайте на JaWiki"; для описаний клиентов ссылка сюда вообще забита в шаблон, наряду с оффсайтом и описанием на Wikipedia), кое-что сразу редиректит сюда (например, региональные российские сервера тут хорошо структурированы). С учетом сказанного в первом сообщении про отсутствие / малый объем описанной у меня тематики на JaWiki - ну так и используйте существующие готовые наработки. Настройте интервики наконец-то, ссылайтесь на отсутствующие здесь материалы на меня, просмотрите структуру того, что есть (собственно, структура и тематика описываемых статей видна и по главной странице - несколько отдельных блоков с ветвлением в области описания клиентов, серверов и сервисов. А вообще есть карта вики и дерево категорий). В общем, как-то так...--Rain 09:59, 2 June 2009 (GMT)
Категорически за интервики. И соотв. образом допилить шаблон. Кроме того, и впрямь имеет смысл распределить обязанности: джабберворлд - сугубо для пользователей, джрудевелс - для программистов. Это лучше чем объединенная химера с двумя головами, поскольку даже определения понятий требуются разные: юзерам - как можно более доступные, девелоперам - как можно более точные (IMHO, конечно). Аналогично с описанием клиентов: здесь можно оставить строгие описания на уровне XEP'ов (это умеет, это умеет, это не умеет), там - в более общей форме. Ну и, возможно, будет иметь смысл перетащить на jabberworld парочку статей про миграцию. --Vindicar 13:05, 2 June 2009 (GMT)
джабберворлд - сугубо для пользователей, джрудевелс - для программистов << Невозможно, грань слишком размыта. На чём моя позиция и основана. // Сыр Российский 18:14, 2 June 2009 (GMT)
Ладно, на 100% разграничить не удасться. Но, как мне кажется, одну и ту же статью можно(и нужно!) писать по разному для пользователя и для разработчика. Так что совсем уж дублей будет мало. --Vindicar 20:47, 2 June 2009 (GMT)
По-моему, можно статью начинать с простого объяснения и продолжать, углубляясь в протоколы, исходники и пр. Программистам тоже простота нужна, чтобы вникнуть в предмет, а пользователи могут технические подробности и пропустить. А всякие ответвления, приложения, примеры вообще выносятся в подстраницы. // Сыр Российский 05:52, 3 June 2009 (GMT)
Первый пункт — не наша генеральная линия, но близко. Остальные — прямое попадание в профиль ЯВики. Собственно, вэлкам! // Сыр Российский 21:07, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Ну и по "примочкам"... Собственно, о каких примочках речь? Единственный плагин, который я поставил и которого нет тут - CategoryTree, да и тот используется только на "Карте Wiki". Остальное - стандартные функции движка Mediawiki. Который, кстати, у меня дефолтно на русском языке, что для начинающих пользователей тоже может быть важно. --Rain 20:56, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Ладно, в примочках я не разобрался. А по поводу языка надо благодарить Байнари во вторую очередь и Лексея в первую. // Сыр Российский 21:07, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Какой такой язык? Вроде все по-русски в интерфейсе. Или я чего не понял? Или ты опять про название статей?Leksey 21:53, 1 June 2009 (GMT)
Не всё по-русски в интерфейсе.
Таки не всё (см. скриншот). // Сыр Российский 04:47, 2 June 2009 (GMT)

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